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Question: hey-quite often see posts about reaper plugins having great looking skins etc- why not ask schwa to include these plugins shown here? @ stillwellaudio.com/plugins (are they schwa coded plugs? it would please many users imo)
Asked by 2020 (95.148.58.x) on March 28 2020, 11:48am
Reply on March 28 2020, 8:58pm:
    Life, and software development, is full of compromises. We try to keep the FX plug-ins small and lightweight and simple.

  • Posted by 2020 (95.148.58.x) on March 29 2020, 2:15am:
    aww-guess there's no harm in asking schwa at least!? =) in this day & age with some programmes and games going into gigs per instal....why compromise?? trying to keep installers tiny means you cannot expand an already great app! - as certain lots of users would love more additions and extra beauty to admire+inspire.. so long they work+look great.. plus* them listed plugs are years old now..reselling old rope gets a little..meh sometimes eh? (white tie+co made some brilliant,sleek+gexy looking stuff imo!)

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 7:54am:
    @2020 are Stillwell plugins really better than REAPER's built-in plugin? Nah, not about looks. But about features, utilities, quality, tools etc.

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 7:57am:
    @Justin 2020 is right. Maybe, include those plugins in another edition and name it "REAPER Ultimate" or "REAPER Pro" or something and yes, charge $100 from us. No one mind if those plugins are in better quality than the original ReaPlugs. Also, keeping REAPER just under 10 MB or 15 MB is really not a good idea. I think a 100 MB installer (see Studio One) is best. It is not gigantic like 1 GB of installer of other major DAWs. And also it doesn't compromise in anything.

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 8:01am:
    Their other stuffs are available as add-ons, and totally, Studio One is like 25 GB large (including all their expansions). We are not saying you to make REAPER like that. We don't even need any of those huge instrument plugins which other DAWs offer. We already have Native Instruments for that which can easily beat any other instrument plugin of any DAW. We just want you to not compromise in quality just to make REAPER under 10-15 MB. We will buy REAPER even if it goes 100 MB and $100 with more quality :)

  • Posted by 2020 (95.148.58.x) on March 29 2020, 1:29pm:
    @Abhi - point is__ how can a daw really be called such when it has 0 playable instruments? it's like driving a car with no steering wheel..a human without a head or a ship without a rudder... the naysayers harp on about using 'free' plugins as a get out of jail free card..when in reality most these are seriously dated,and upgrading os sometimes totally wipes them out of play... smh! =)

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:24pm:
    @2020 nah, REAPER has one synth. You can make some really good sine bells with it. Or even pad. Just increase release and ahhhh, the warm sound. Anyway, what DAW is? DAW means in which you can SEQUENCE your song, compose, mix and master, maybe songwriting too, etc. It doesn't means that DAW must have virtual plugins or even effect plugins. But since no one like a DAW without any plugin, and they have to search plugins in internet, that's why almost all DAWs have effect plugins. (continue...)

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:27pm:
    @2020 Major DAWs have virtual instrument too just because of their marketing strategy. We see, OH STUDIO ONE HAS 25 GB OF VIRTUAL INSTRUMENTS, oh no, ableton live has 54 GB... all marketing strategy, just save money, buy Komplete Ultimate (which is around 600 GB), and you don't need any other instrument AT ALL, I can give you my word. When there are lots of good free and paid plugins out there, especially virtual instruments, even better than DAW's plugins itself, then why bothering DAW's built-in plugins?

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:30pm:
    @2020 Also, Cockos only have mainly 2 core employees - Justin & Schwa. How can we expect them to create a 100 GB virtual instruments? I really love that they only focus on main core DAW development. That's why, it is really competing against all other major DAWs (even they provide us GBs of virtual instrument, still who need them when we have Native Instruments, even reFX Nexus is far better than any DAW's built-in instruments.

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:32pm:
    @2020 Instead of spending $400 in a DAW, which is not even enough because their effect plugins are good enough, no complain, but virtual instruments are simply not. Third party plugins, especially virtual instrument plugins, they completely focus into developing and improving virtual instruments. Whereas the virtual instruments which are built-in a DAW, they just focus a bit on virtual instrument, and mainly their focus in DAW development, because well, they have to compete with DAWs (like REAPER)......

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:34pm:
    @2020 which mainly focus in core DAW development. So simply, built-in virtual instruments are just not good if you are really serious into music making and wanted to create really professional iTunes or Spotify ready music. I don't think any major popular musician has made their songs into built-in virtual instruments of their DAWs. Everyone used third party, mainly Native Instruments, Sylenth, even reFX Nexus, Omnisphere and all. (SORRY FOR LONG MESSAGES, please continue....)

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:36pm:
    @2020 If we talk about built-in effects, they are much easier to develop than to develop a virtual instrument. Because effects are all about just programming. Whereas, virtual instruments have programming and some other things too (sometimes even real sounds are there). It's much more complex than effects plugins. Like, a compressor is always a compressor. I don't think there is a vast major difference between FabFilter Compressor and ReaComp. That's why, REAPER has effects plugin but not virtual instrument

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:37pm:
    @2020 And that's why, effects plugins are just under 200 MB or 300 MB, I mean, the bundle, like FabFilter, iZotope, Waves, Melda etc. But virtual instruments, good high quality one, are like 50 GB (Omnisphere) and 600 GB (Komplete) etc.

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:40pm:
    @2020 But yes, Cockos can give us just basic MIDI instruments. Like, basic piano, guitar, drums, organs, brass, violins, just like we have in 128 MIDI instruments. That can be for those who can't afford expensive high quality instruments. And that are beginner into music making. They can just install REAPER, and use its own built-in basic instruments and make decent to good sounding music. If Cockos can do this, I really suggest them to do this.

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:41pm:
    @2020 But even this is not much necessary when you have some really decent-good sounding free instruments in VST4FREE or any other free vst websites. Just make list of the instruments you want to use (like piano, guitar, drums, synths etc.) and download them one by one and you are good to go :)

  • Posted by @2020 (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:49pm:
    @2020 oh yes, there are many out-dated free plugins out there. But there are many good sound instruments too which are regularly updated, also open-source plugins which sounds good. There is a guy on YouTube, who just use free open-source stuffs. He use Ardour, all his instruments plugins are free open-source and his music really sounds good. It's possible to make good sounding (okay, not iTunes, Spotify ready) music with free, open-source plugins.

  • Posted by Abhi (182.68.97.x) on March 29 2020, 4:54pm:
    @2020 But even we can't make iTunes, Spotify ready songs with built-in DAW's virtual instruments, not even Logic Pro's, which is considered best when talking about stock sounds. They are very good just for uploading your music on YouTube, Soundcloud, Bandcamp etc. But not good for when you have to make music commercially, like under a label? Then you really require those expensive Native Instruments & others. But yeah still, Cockos can provide us basic 128-MIDI instruments (indirectly, a FR, sorry XD) FORUM

  • Posted by Pony (46.252.220.x) on March 29 2020, 5:15pm:
    @2020. DAW is not an instrument, it's not neccesarily need to have it, other DAWs include a lot of stuff to justify their high price and make more money from you, it's ok, it's business, but it's not an obligation for a DAW to have it. There's more than enough of paid/free 3rd party instruments, why do you you need another one? And do you really think, it's good, if devs will spend time on developing/maintaining instruments instead of actually improving a DAW? :)

  • Posted by Pony (46.252.220.x) on March 29 2020, 5:16pm:
    Not everyone needs bloated with stuff DAW and if you ask me, i'll be glad to pay more for some useful major REAPER improvements, but for synths? No, thanks :)

  • Posted by dopp (104.236.70.x) on March 29 2020, 5:38pm:
    Justin, do you think, that making and using some GUI framework for all JS plugins and a DAW's windows, will make it more CPU and RAM demanding? I'm not talking about creative GUIs, just a single raster canvas + drawing generic shapes. I made gain plugin with GUI similar to Volume adjustment JSFX in both JUCE and IPlug2 for experiment and it has same CPU usage.

  • Posted by 2020 (95.148.58.x) on March 30 2020, 1:08am:
    ahhh- ok here's how it works out... the total binary file size in mb (windows) for the complete plugin package comes in about: 133.174mb (harldy bloat,and some are already in reaper as jsfx!) but the real killer is the actual cost of ALL plugins there..totalling a whopping $916 ! (for all commercial uses) combine that with a commercial reaper license which then totals.. $1,141 ! that's a lot of bread+butter right? >> figures ;) cheerz!!

  • Posted by Eric (71.9.37.x) on April 1 2020, 6:15pm:
    Stillwell's plugs look very dated to me. No one wants that bad-photoshop pseudo-hardware look anymore.

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